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Circumcision: German Court Says No Until Consent, What Do You Say?

In a controversial decision, a German court ruled boys must be old enough to consent to having a circumcision. How do you feel about the ruling? How did you decide about circumcising your son?

Moms Talk is a weekly feature on all Lehigh Valley Patches in which local parents, caregivers and other members of the community are invited to share opinions and advice on parenting topics.

This week’s Moms Talk question relates to circumcision.

Religious groups protested the ruling by a German court that said a boy must be old enough to consent in order to be circumcised, according to the Huffington Post.


“The Cologne court ruling said the four-year-old boy in the case was not old enough to consent to have part of his body removed permanently and his parents should have let him decide when he got older. It gave no minimum age for this,” the Huffington Post reported.

In short, here’s what we want to know:

What do you think of the German court ruling? Do you think the same type of ruling should be made here? If you are a parent of a boy child, how did you make your decision on circumcision? Have you ever regretted it?

Our Moms Council members include: 

  • Lisa Amey of Upper Milford Township is a stay-at-home mom to an 8-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl. A past president of the MOMS Club of Emmaus and longtime member of MOPs (Mothers of Preschoolers), Lisa is an Independent Consultant for Arbonne International. 
  • Lisa Drew of Emmaus is a certified nutritionist and personal trainer, wellness and fitness coach with more than 17 years of experience. She is the mother of a 13-year-old girl and a 9-year-old boy.
  • Jennifer Elston of Emmaus has almost two decades of professional experience in child development and counseling. She is currently a stay-at-home mom to two beautiful girls. Together with her husband, Chris, she owns Christopher Elston Photography.
  • Jeanne Lombardo of Nazareth is the mother of a 10-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl. She’s new to the Lehigh Valley, having moved to Nazareth from Bergen County, NJ in January.
  • Lisa Merk of Lower Macungie is a stay-at-home mother of four boys – a 12-year-old and 6-year-old triplets. Lisa is a past president of the MOMS Club of Lower Macungie East. In her “spare” time, Lisa teaches piano to school-age children.
  • Zoila Bonilla Paul of Bethlehem is a stay-at-home mom to two girls – a 5-year-old and a 14-month-old. Zoila is a member of her local “moms’ club” and says she is “well-versed in the fun that children can bring.”
  • Beth Sharpless of Emmaus works part time in a local emergency department as a nurse and part time from home as a customer support specialist. She has two children -- a boy who is almost 2 and a 5-year-old girl. She says they love spending time outdoors and dancing.

If you would like to become a part of the Moms Council and/or have ideas for future Moms Talk questions, please email jennifer.marangos@patch.com.

Tim Killimaji July 8, 2012 at 07:16 pm
sounds painful, i prefer to have been circumcised very early in life than to have to dwell on a scalpel being used on my privates
H smith July 8, 2012 at 07:34 pm
I did not circumcise our son even though I was very conflicted for religious reasons. I think it is cruel to inflict that much pain on an infant for a cosmetic reasons. Parents should have to watch the procedure before doing this to their sons to see that its not something babies just "get over". We think that genital mutilation on girls in Africa is horrible, but yet it happens every day to our innocent baby boys. Only a very small percentage of men would ever need a circumcision for medical reasons. I have mixed feelings about the German law because it is banning a religious rite.
Theresa Williams July 8, 2012 at 10:08 pm
I watched my son's circumcision and decided right then and there if I ever had another son I would NEVER EVER do that to another boy. I was really young and naive and never even wondered why it was being done, it was just the norm. Only after seeing it performed did I question why the hell did I do that to my son and what is the purpose? I was told hygiene. Hygiene??? Please. I think Mother Nature put it there for a reason and there it should stay unless for some reason the owner of said part chooses himself to have it removed.
Lisa Amey July 9, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I had my son circumcised at birth, and have to admit I was a very naive new mom. I thought that is what everybody did at birth, to avoid this very issue later.
Jonathan Gerard July 9, 2012 at 01:09 pm
As a rabbi who cares both for tradition and for the well-being of all children I have thought about this issue my whole career. Much has been written about it and one can easily find studies which support either side. I have to say that circumcising a 12 year old seems barbaric to me. I have officiated at many circumcisions of an 8 day old, however, and can say that a very skillful mohel (Jewish circumciser) can perform the procedure with a minimum of discomfort. Babies sometimes wail because they don't want their knees to be held apart for so long. A good doctor or mohel will do this quickly though. The foreskin is pinched, cutting off the blood and numbing it, so that the actual cutting his not felt. Having said that, I can also say that it looks primitive and painful and an attending relative has been known to faint at these gatherings.
For those who believe purely in person autonomy--Why didn't the German court also outlaw piercing an infant's ears? That is a purely cosmetic procedure with no medical benefits. The religious issue is a weighty one and ought to command our respect--but a limited respect. Ultimately it is the medical issue that ought to rule a decision about circumcision. If it is causes unjustified pain then it must be proscribed. So we have to ask, Is the pain, however minimal, "justified"? Please continue reading below.
Jonathan Gerard July 9, 2012 at 01:25 pm
Many studies over the years have shown that Jewish women have a lower rate of cervical cancer and the hypothesis is that this is related to their circumcised husbands. Perhaps the foreskin irritates the cervix in unknown ways. Or perhaps the foreskin carries a pathogen into the vagina. The effect is small, however, and could be merely a correlation: Jewish husbands, following religious prescription, clean themselves regularly. Thus a clean foreskin is as healthy as no foreskin. We don't yet know.
Further, studies in Africa have shown that circumcised men are far less likely to contract AIDS and thus there is definitely a medically justified reason for circumcision. If it protects against AIDS it might protect against other diseases as well. And so in the overwhelming majority of cases circumcision does no medical harm and may serve some medical benefit. See below for the religious "benefits" of circumcision.
Jonathan Gerard July 9, 2012 at 01:28 pm
There are two reasons for a religious justification for circumcision. The first is that it perpetuates a powerful ancient ritual which, having gone through it, psychologically binds the parents to "justify" performing on their son by fulfilling their additional obligation to educate their son to be a good Jew.
The second reason, less well articulated in the literature, has to do with sex. In Judaism it is a religious obligation to please one's wife sexually and to do one's best to enable her to climax first. A circumcised penis is a bit less sensitive and thus will remain erect longer and hence increase the likelihood of giving more pleasure to the female partner--with only a minimal diminishing of sexual felling in the man. This is, perhaps surprisingly, a religious issue that the earliest rabbis discuss in the Talmud. They even, in their naive "wisdom," propose that a husband's reward for allowing his wife to "seminate" (climax) first is that a male child will result. Contexual sexism aside, the concern for a woman's sexual pleasure is unique and obvious in this teaching.
Lisa Merk July 9, 2012 at 01:33 pm
I don't know anything about this hearing/case in Germany - although I question why you would do this to a 4 year old. If you haven't done is at birth, I think should give the decision over to the child when and if he is ready.
Jonathan Gerard July 9, 2012 at 01:43 pm
In my first comment I wrote that the medical criteria (and not religious criteria) ought to govern one's decision about circumcision. Let me conclude with what I meant. Jewish law generally forbids doing anything to risk one's life or health. (Getting pregnant or even walking across the street entail some obvious risk, but normal life tasks are exempt from this proscription. In such activities "God watches over us," the rabbis taught--although apparently not always!)
Jewish law not only requires that one not take unnecessary risks, it requires that one do everything possible to save a life--which has infinite value--and even requires the breaking of all but three Jewish laws, if necessary, to preserve a life. (One cannot, for example, murder or commit adultery to save a life.) So, therefore, although I have never heard this discussed in rabbinic circles, it is nevertheless true that, should medical science conclude that circumcision is an unnecessary or unjustified risk to an infant boy's health, then Jewish law would, ironically, REQUIRE that the practice to be stopped. God, in Jewish teaching, is inextricably bound to Truth and medical and scientific truth is as valid as the religious truths of the Torah and its subsequent interpretations. While there are many interpretations of Torah, the vast majority of Jewish scholars and teachers over the millennia have agreed that religious truth must conform to scientific truth. Truth always leads one to God, never away from God.
Clint Walker July 9, 2012 at 01:56 pm
Don't trivialize the decision to circumcise. It's not a mere cosmetic choice; it's a life or death choice. If Africa, AIDS spread rapidly in areas where most men were not circumcised. The internationally supported public health campaign against AIDS there has circumcision and use of condoms as the two most effective actions. The German court's decision may be a sign of lingering anti-Semitism. If circumcision hurts men's sexual performance, as has been alleged, why has the population of the US, where most male babies have been routinely circumcised for a long time, grown so much over the past century?
QED July 9, 2012 at 02:56 pm
Please, just get the government out of this sort of thing.
Peter Slade July 9, 2012 at 03:13 pm
Clint -- the reason for the growth of circumcision in the US among Gentiles is fascinating. It gained in popularity in the English speaking world in about 1900 (according to Wikipedia and www.circumstitions.com) because of medical reports that it reduced masturbation rates! And also some reports it reduced rates of syphilis infection.
In the UK with the introduction of the NHS in 1947, circumcision rates dropped dramatically as it became an out of pocket expense for a medically unnecessary procedure. In the US, however, it rose after the Second World War – possibly due to the number of GI’s circumcised by service doctors. Apparently at the Battle of Guadalcanal, there was mass circumcision of US soldiers in the Pacific in response to "an outbreak of phimosis and paraphimosis" The main reason given by parents in the US for circumcision is "concerns about the attitudes of peers” and “to look like their fathers.” It has nothing to do with sexual performance in the bedroom and everything to do with looking like a regular guy in the locker room.
Peter Slade July 9, 2012 at 03:14 pm
So, Gentile Americans are circumcised because their grandfathers were the victims of now disproved medical beliefs generated by outdated Victorian sexual sensibilities. British men are not circumcised – not because they didn’t have these misconceptions – but because saving cash was more important than looking like dad! (N.B. In the US there is a financial incentive for pediatricians to circumcise baby boys as they can bill the insurance companies for the inexpensive and swift procedure).
Recent findings on the effect of circumcision on the spread of HIV and HPV viruses are very important -- but it should be noted that the decision in the Cologne court in Germany and the reason most American men are circumcised have nothing to do with the spread of AIDS in Sub-Saharan Africa. Perhaps they should--but they don't.
rolex sub July 9, 2012 at 05:39 pm
How can you possibly know how much discomfort a baby feels?
Jonathan Gerard July 10, 2012 at 03:01 am
Rolex sub: If a baby does not cry, I can conclude he is not experiencing much discomfort. The length and type of crying is a reasonable measure. When you give the baby to the mother to nurse and he immediately is soothed then everyone present is also comforted, but most of all the infant.
Katja Kruppe July 10, 2012 at 03:50 pm
One of the very few things I regret in life is having allowed my son to be circumcised. I agree with the court's decision and in no way does it rule out the procedure for medical reasons, which should be the only reason for it to ever be considered.
It also only applies in the jurisdiction where the court ruling was made in. When I had to make the decision, there was a number of forms to sign to waive liability for the doctor, I wish there would have been more educational material and true facts and statistics presented. Parents are given so much information leading up to giving birth but circumcision facts are not part of that . You think you make a reasonably informed decision that your child will benefit from for the rest of his life just to later realize it was truly not necessary.
Sarah C July 11, 2012 at 11:39 am
I know someone who was not circumcised, and it was his experience that led me to circumcize my own sons. He was made fun of. He always wished that his parents had him circumcized as an infant. He even spoke with a doctor about having it done as an adult, but ultimately chose against that. It may seem superficial, but it matters. I didn't want my sons to be uncomfortable or self-conscous about it.
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr. July 11, 2012 at 01:35 pm
NO!..There is no medical indication to do this...It's all religious "ritual"...Let the kid decide for himself...(No one will ever know of his penile situation if he doesn't show it off to buddies, Sarah C).
John Fox July 11, 2012 at 01:51 pm
1. I think the condom does a lot more to prevent AIDS then circumcision...
2. sexual performance has no correlation with fertility... 3. Circumcision in America was not very common initially, and the current practice is largely due to the efforts of John Harvey Kellogg... (the guy who invented corn flakes) who was an avid sexual abstinence advocate, even within a marriage, and thought that masturbation caused death.
Katja Kruppe July 11, 2012 at 02:12 pm
See, even the person who wished he had been because he did not want to be subjected to the jokes, ultimately decided against it. His experience should have been the prime example of why not to do it.
Also, in Germany and most of Europe, boys are generally not circumcised. My family definitely questioned my decision.
Jonathan Gerard July 12, 2012 at 12:22 am
The New York Times expands the discussion today:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/07/10/an-age-of-consent-for-circumcision/let-boys-decide-at-16-whether-to-be-circumcised
Jonathan Gerard July 15, 2012 at 04:55 am
More on the health benefits of circumcision:
Extensive studies have been conducted in Africa where the HIV infection and AIDS rates are at epidemic proportion. The results, as I’m sure you know, are astounding, so astounding that some of the studies were stopped midway because it was deemed unethical to NOT circumcise the control group. Circumcision alone -- with no other change in a person’s life or behavior -- reduces the rates of HIV infection by 50-60%. See below for the links to health studies.
Jonathan Gerard July 15, 2012 at 04:55 am
(1) This link takes you to the abstract of a meta-analysis of 27 research studies of male circumcision vis-à-vis HIV infections rates. The researchers conclude: “Male circumcision is associated with a significantly reduced risk of HIV infection among men in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly those at high risk of HIV. These results suggest that consideration should be given to the acceptability and feasibility of providing safe services for male circumcision as an additional HIV prevention strategy in areas of Africa where men are not traditionally circumcised.”
http://journals.lww.com/aidsonline/Abstract/2000/10200/Male_circumcision_and_risk_of_HIV_infection_in.18.aspx (2) Male circumcision is endorsed by the World Health Organization: http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ (3) This link takes you to a synopsis of a study that assessed, “the efficacy of male circumcision for the prevention of herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2) and human papillomavirus (HPV) infections and syphilis in HIV-negative adolescent boys and men.” This looks at circumcision beyond HIV infection. The researches conclude: “In addition to decreasing the incidence of HIV infection, male circumcision significantly reduced the incidence of HSV-2 infection and the prevalence of HPV infection, findings that underscore the potential public health benefits of the procedure.” http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0802556
WILFREDO G. SALCEDO, Sr. July 16, 2012 at 11:27 am
Angela Merkel of Germany said to leave circumcision alone for the Jews' and Muslims' sake...Let them practice their religious rights without government interference...Should the U.S. let the bishops get in the way of womens' rights too?
Liberalism is a mental disorder July 17, 2012 at 04:06 pm
As our resident liberal whack job, I find it hard to believe you support slicing up a baby. How does this jive with your usual liberal whacko stance on everything else? Can't show an ID to vote, but you can chop bits of your baby off? Can't drug test a welfare recipient, but they can chop parts of their kid off. Come on you liberal nut job. Try to be consistent.
Liberalism is a mental disorder July 17, 2012 at 04:08 pm
Ya, for people in Africa who take a bath once a month.

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Judith C. Lieberman June 1, 2013 at 09:38 pm
I am concerned. Emmaus is a part of your constituency and to the best of my knowledge you have notRead More had a Town Hall Meeting or any public meeting in this area. Why? Safety is as important in Lehigh County as in other counties and programs such as this should be made available to everyone.