Do we know which book(s) are presenting the other side here?

Most people do not know the monetary situation of those who made choices. It is far from being a "tremendous education and a great education" What did you learn educationally speaking, that you did not know about poor peopls and those working iin low paying jobs

Erenreich would have had more money for food if she wasn't spending it on illegal drugs and chemical buffers to cover it up.

Have you read the book? Probably not

Mike
I agree with what you say and that includes banning books. I have many books in my home library, and no I am not rich as stated above, and you would find Mein Hampf and the Communist Manifesto in the book cases. But do we want our kids, despite the fact that they now do random testing with hair, reading a book encouraging kids to cheat and not obey the law?

Well said! Fantastic post.

Apparently a library is foreign territory to you.

Are you the same Chris Miller (no relation) that is on the Board of Directors for the Nazareth Area School District. I sincerely hope not, considering that you've talked about your private bookcases and said, "you would find Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto in the book cases."

Then, you wrote this statement , "many kids have gone home and told mom and dad guess what, I read a book today that taught me how to avoid a piss test so I can have drugs in my system but will pass the test and get the job any way"

Being working poor is a choice? And the road to fair market wages in the Lehigh Valley is oil drilling? Interesting perspectives. Let's just set aside the fact that you are dead wrong about the economics of this, Mr. Miller, and concentrate on the fact that you are willing to throw out the First Amendment to support your politics. Apparently, you and unfortunately, many others like you, do not believe that freedom of speech should apply to anyone who is "liberal," or is critical of the way our economy is or isn't working for millions of Americans. In a free and democratic society, these issues should be discussed openly. But some will just knee-jerk and hurl epithets (Communist!) at anything or anyone critical of how big business and Wall Street operates in America. It shifts the debate (deliberately, I think) away from the real problems many people and families are having. At the end of the day, there is no excuse for banning books in what it supposed to be the most free and democratic country on the planet.

Chris,
The minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25/hour. I am pretty sure that Walmart does not qualify for any of the exemptions to that law, so I doubt they are paying "$6-$8 an hour".

Rebecca,
There is only room for a finite number of books in any curriculum. Which books do you think they "banned" to make room for this one??
The process is called "weeding", selecting the best possible materials for the curriculum. The point missed by almost everyone is the simple fact that there are MUCH better choices for educational purposes. This book, just for controvercy sake, is horrible. The arguments to replace it have nothing to do with her "cover story" of the plight of the working poor.; There are plenty of books on that topic which DO NOT include vulgar and illegal drug content..

Right. Good post. As I said above ready this book. Can't even recall that part... In an academic context/setting that is certainly not the takeaway.

Ms. Porter
Have you read thid book? It is terrible. It is all about equallity in everything for everybody. In short it is a book that supprts socialism. it is not a splended work under the best of circumstances. I read this to find out what was in it.

You are correct Missy. Problem is that there is no oppossing book.

As a student in the class i can tell you we went through both sides by reviewing a aclip against the book as well as having full class discussion on this. This is an AP class and all of you are making amazing assumptions. Adam Shepard Scratch Beginning. We didnt read it we watched a clip and discussed it thoroughly. Even those who disagree and hated the book didnt feel pressured into thinking ANY way. We all researched and defened are opinions.

I agree with this completely, even the conservative part...lol

Amen! Outrage over books in academic setting is nonsense........meanwhile we are (society) ok with jersey shore, housewife shows and teen mom (two now have been from parkland). Where is the outrage? We're blasted with junk 24/7 on the tv. I wish there was this kind of outrage on that front.

You and your friends need to lead the charge on this. What your are noting is the destruction of our culture. As to the book, one has to ask "Why this book?" Keep in mind that our kids are being indoctrinated in our schools and schools are not the place where you find neither conservative or moderate thoughts.

Sal Res,
Of course let them read and decide for themselves. Again, the point is much larger than this one book. Our educational system is being dumbed down. Our kids are leaving school without the basic knowledge of our American history, how to balance a checkbook, or any foundational understanding of honor, duty, reverence, respect.
What shows are on MTV are irrelevant in this conversation about what they should be getting in school.

Ben
And when you do this sort of thing, let's say have a child at 16 and become a singel mom, how is that going to affect your future. Some come out of it well yet many do not. Watched a great movie last night on Ken Carter, basketball player and coach at his high school in Richmond California. You want something for the kids to see, get this movie.

I'm very familiar with the situation, Chris, much more than you know. As a Conservative yourself, how can you be behind more governmental interference? How can you be Conservative and then say that we need the government to legislate morality and censor what our kids read? It goes against the core principles.

Government should not be censoring books. Who ever is in charge of determining curriculum should be choosing books using common sense and that provide a balance of opinions so that true educated debate can take place. I think they should balance it with a Glen Beck book. Perhaps "An Inconvenient Book: Real Solutions to the World's Biggest Problems".

Ben, Not banning the book...choosing a better one.
What book was "banned" to make room for this one? Where was the outrage about book banning when they removed whatever book lost out to Nickel and Dimed??

It's an "opinion" post. Does it matter what district it's in?

I'm ok with it posted multiple patches.... Interesting topic. Good conversation.

Great... now we take our cues from a dictator who was murdered by his own people. I'm sure you like Obama as well.... hummmm....

Ms. Georgiou
I agree with you on the matter of Capitalists and Capitalism. Capitalism began to disappear with the passage of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act used by T. Roosevelt, Taft and Wilson used it to fill their aganda and that was to take the Capitans of Industry and turn them into Robber Barons. You are correct real capitalism has not been with us for several generations. When it comes to companies like Wal Mart and others, I am sure that they base salaries on what is going on in a particular area, case in point being the situation in North Dakota. As to increasing wages in any company one has to keep in mind the affect that will have on business. Walmart is a companly that targets low income families, though I have seen a variety of folks in the store, and if wages would go up or Walmart would become union, would it have an adverse affect on the targeted clientel. But let me ask a question or two. Are you in favor of our society working under capitalism and what wages would you pay Walmart workers here in the Valley? Let me also note that i worked construction in the late 1960's for $1.65 an hour when the minimum wage was, if I remember correctly, $1.00 and hour. It was a summer job. I was a teacher and my starting salary in 1967 was $5500. I was married and had a son.

Walmart pays market wages. Free market wages. Many employees are 2nd wage earners in families. If they pay an employee the market wage, and said employee is the only bread winner, and said employee is unaware they could get foodstamps, then Walmart is doing them a service. You seem to think that Walmart has to pay everyone who works in their store a wage that would allow them to own a home, raise a family, have two cars, save for retirement and pay to put the kids through college. This may be possible in "Happy Land" where liberals dream their fiscally unsupportable dreams, but it's not reality.

As to opportunity zones, they do this because this brings jobs. I know you'd rather these folks stay on public assistance, rather than earn a market rate wage, but some government entities do try to create jobs. Even ones that DON'T pay $60,000 a year with full pension and benefits.

Chris, how is it that you can tell the income levels of Walmart customers simply by looking at them?

Mr. Eddinger: To set the record straight, I did not vote for Obama, or the other guy either, and I have have voted in every election, save one primary, since I turned 18. (I'm 42.) I'm a registered Independent, and politically "non-Euclidian." (If you're wondering why I show up for primaries, it's for the referendums.)
Walmart may pay "market wages", but it's not a free market when they're being propped up by massive amounts of taxpayer funding in the ways I mentioned earlier. In very few areas do they "create jobs", but they are very good at creating wage slaves. Most areas end up with a net LOSS of jobs when Walmart decides to come to town. That is why there have been major protests in some areas when that happens.
Locally, just a few years ago, we lost the Lower Naz Redner's, which is an EMPLOYEE OWNED COMPANY (long term employees are offered stock options with all the inherent risks and possible gains--this is not some communist idea), when Walmart decided to expand. They then sold their groceries under market rate until the Redner's closed. Then raised them above the Redner's prices. At least three times as many people were employed by Redner's as now stock the Walmart (poor quality) grocery shelves, and they were paid a reasonable wage with the chance of actual advancement.
Would you like to bet that put some more people on assistance?
No one said anyone has to be rich, just be paid enough to actually live on. Something tells me, the Waltons can easily afford it.

Published today, from Business Insider:
http://www.businessinsider.com/renting-still-remains-a-pipe-dream-for-minimum-wage-earners-2012-3

Mr. (Chris) Miller: Thanks for your comment. Yes, I understand well the interconnectedness of retail wages and price. In fact, I suspect the hypothetical $13/hour Walmart worker in ND may only be a bit better off than the minimum wage one due to real estate and other market pressures in the area. Even if the cost of living were relatively low, that worker would still face pressure--see the link I just posted. I'm not saying life must always be roses--that's unrealistic at best. A bit closer to median would help a lot though.
Back when, you made 65% more than minimum in a time when costs vs. wages were more proportionate. (Not saying you had it easy, just doable.) It's not the actual dollar amount, it's the income/outgo ratio that counts. Let's face it, no one is going anywhere on $7.25 an hour. It's more appropriate to HS students, who have little or no experience and no overhead, than it is to the hypothetical adult worker, possibly trying to support children. Many HS students won't even work for that little (unless they have parent that makes them to show them the value of money and work).
I laugh very hard when I hear about "wealth distribution" as though it's some threat to the rich. Walmart doesn't just base wages on the market--they manipulate the market and the rules to redistribute the wealth (garnered from their underpaid workers and the taxpayer) to enrich themselves.
Real free market capitalism? Absolutely. But that's not what what's going on here. At all.

Amen, Christina!

@chris - my dad's salary in 1965 was about $7,000+ as an experienced teacher in NJ, so I believe your $5,000+ starting in 1967. My mom had also been a teacher briefly before kids. In spite of their both being children of immigrants and one being orphaned as a child, their income as teachers in the 1950's and 1960's (mostly his) was sufficient to own a house without a mortgage by the time I was in 5th grade. (and perhaps before then). I can attest from experience that it was a comfortable, but not ostentatious living.

Christina,
You said, "I laugh very hard when I hear about "wealth distribution" as though it's some threat to the rich."
It is a threat to the poor more than to the rich. Wealth distribution teaches them they don't have to achieve anything, because it will be given to them after being stolen from the wealthy. They'll become lazy just waiting for another hand-out.

I agree... as long as the same HS classroom also has kids read books with opposing view points. That rarely happens. Most teachers are democrats, liberals and union members. Doesn't always make for the most balanced viewpoint on matters of business and capitalism.

Exactly my point Michael, all too often we only hear of one opinion in our schools, and it's usually the opinion of the unions, liberals and democrats. If your going to force YOUR opinion on my kids, you better be also discussing the opposing opinion

Samantha, There is a difference between fiction and non-fiction. N&D is non-fiction unlike the other works you mentioned.
Apples and oranges.

Your comment about owning a copy of Mein Kampf is the dumbest thing I've seen posted on this board in months. I too have a copy of Mein Kampf. Bought it 30 years ago, read it, threw it on a shelf. It sits with 250+ other history books I own and have read. What should I have done, burned it when I was done?

Really? The dumbest thing you've seen posted in months? I'm guessing you've missed quite a few other posts..

I suppose when one is unable to debate an issue on its merits or present a viable counterpoint, they have to resort to personal insults.

You actually want to debate whether saying somebody who owns a copy of Mein Kampf has some moral or ethical deficiency? You comment, and inference, were just plain stupid. Nothing to be debated.

Again, you stated:
" am surprised that as a member of the Nazareth School Board, you would publicize that you have Nazi and Communist propaganda books in your personal library. Reading them to learn more about the subject is one thing, I have read them in college myself. Finding them so compelling as to go buy your own copy is quite another."

Go ahead. Defend that statement. "It's not one thing.... it's quite another" you said. What do you mean by that? Clarify it for us. What exactly does ownership of the book Mein Kampf allow you to determine about Chris Miller, or me, or millions of others who have a copy of the book?

Ben,
Chris using crass language here should be fine if you have no problem with handing it out to our children in school. Chris makes a great point by using that language here. He has exposed hypocrisy among some supporters of N&D's vulgarity in public schools.

SalRes,
Kudos to Margie???
This issue wasn't brought to light by Margie, no disrespect intended. It was brought to light by concerned citizen Eric Adams.
Kudos to Eric with a mention of thanks to Margie for continuing the conversation.

Chris Miller- I don't you or anyone else a detailed explanation of my personal life or that of my loved ones. As for questioning whether I really am a Conservative, why don't you ask any of the local Republican officials, like Peg Ferraro, who's campaign I ran or maybe Rick Santorum, in who's Allentown office I used to volunteer. I tell the truth, Chris, and I have no political agenda like you.

My personal story is out there for anyone who wants to see it. I've appeared on national media outlets numerous times and I bared by soul to the world more often than I probably should have ever done, in the hopes that it would help other. . All we've seen of you are your self-serving letters to the editor for years and your grandious comments online that present yourself as some sort of expert in all things.

You told me I should look in the mirror for who was responsible for the mess we are currently in and I take great exception to that. As a disabled veteran who suffers more every day than you will ever experience in your lifetime, don't you dare presume to understand who I am and what I'm all about. This will be my last comment to you, as I refuse to bring myself to your level any more than I already have.

God Bless and good luck to you...

Being a retired teacher I am sure you are well aware of government entitled programs.

And I am VERY thankful you did not teach any of my children and are not on the school board of the town I reside.

Ms. Porter
I agree with your statement, particularly that last paragraph though you might have wanted to throw in "The Lord of the Flies". Did not really care for that one. The Cliff notes are a great idea. Lot of statements here but only a few of them actually read to book. Again, there are lots of excellent books out there why select this one to read in any school at any level. Our kids our bombarded constantly with piles of garbage we don't need more.

Translation?

yo, thats off the hook for evan me to decipher

That should have been,
"Why is Chris Miller so stupid? Was he born that way or did he practice?

You might want to go back and read what you have said here. I do believe that we are still in America and Mr. Eddinger can still speak his mind on any issue. That said you are welcomed to follow this president just keep in mind that when you get to where he wants to take you don't start asking us what happened now that we have warned you.

As someone who "follows whatever the leader says" because it's the patriotic thing to do, you would have fit in well in Germany in 1933. Me, I consider it PATRIOTIC to work against a president who is taking the country down a path of fiscal destruction. I guess patriotism, like everything else, is in the eyes of the beholder.

Walt
So sorry that I called you a teacher. Obtuseness: to be annoying, I like it. As a matter of fact I used it to stimulate students if they were simply sitting in a seat. Nothing like getting someone irritated enough to speak out in class.

Where oh where have you seen school board directors denigrate the poor. We can no longer continue down the entitlement path, a path that began in 1967 under Lyndon Johnson. Entitlements have continued to grow and grow and indeed schools have become part of the program. As to the urine test, there is but one district that I know of that is doing this while others are considering a test to determine if someone is using drugs. As to Board members ungoing this, at this time it is not being planned. I think that a district should deal with this matter as something happens---a student is caught with drugs in school or is arrested by the police outside the school. The same should be the case with teachers in fact I think that the state will take away a teacher's licnese to teach. What is driving some of this is the incident in Bangor where the teacher was given drugs by another employee at Bangor and she died.Teachers are important individuals but let's remember that for over 100 years we home schooled our kids. Today. we have a lot of discourse going on in our schools and a lot of balance on said issues is not there. That was not alwayst the case. I agree with those who said that if kids read a book like Nickel and Dime their should be a book that tells the other side. You might want to take a look at a program initiated in 2000, called Goals 2000. It is an eyeopener

I think it is a vicious cycle. In order to keep their prices low Walmart's expenses also have to remain low, hence the low wages paid. The skills required to work at Walmart are not rocket science or brain surgery. If you want better pay you need to take on more challenging jobs that may require more education. To me that is simple common sense. I would never expect to raise a family on Walmart wages! I thank God there is a Walmart with low prices, but I do feel badly for the businesses that get driven out.

Walmart's prices are not so low, if one actually does the comparison. Continuing with food as the example, locally, the Wegman's across the street not only provides higher quality, on most things (the cafe excepted--and Walmart doesn't have one, just a bunch of junk food purveyors in the front), Wegmans is less expensive. And they provide a decent working environment and a living wage.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2012/03/wegmans_among_companies_with_l.html

They also provide the kids working there with small scholarships for school when they leave (all of them, based on the length of time worked), and paid health insurance benefits for part-time workers.

The Wegman family is quite wealthy, and they manage to do it ethically. At the end of the day, it comes down to greed, or lack thereof.

I'd like to see that same world, Tom, but when you have people who've absolutely made up their mind on issues for which they have limited knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster. Their internal dialogue becomes a mantra of sorts, reinforcing their already-entrenched beliefs. When someone like me comes along and challenges those beliefs, they lash out.

It's actually kind of funny that the two antagonists on here, Chris Miller and Michael Eddinger, are a self-proclaimed ultra-right wing Conservative and a registered Democrat.

yeah, that does seem to be what's happening here. Extremist vs. extremist. When comment count gets over a couple dozen, does anyone really read them all? Do the constant commenters really think that their points are being heard? Do other bloggers in the area regret that they didn't do a story on this book? The library only has one copy of this book, and it's usually available; how many have really read it? I'll stop asking questions now.

Ben, I'm sure that to you, anyone who isn't a member of the Rachel Maddow fan club is an ultra right winger.

Still haven't answered my question. Did you infer that Chris is a Nazi based on a book he owns? Come on, explain your logic.

For the record, just because people do not post under their real full name does not make their opinions any less valid. In this day and age you have to protect yourself and your family. I know of an incident where someone called a posters boss and complained to them about that posters political beliefs. We all need to be careful and protect ourselves.

You get my vote for mom of the year!

Brett
Nazareth has this book for an AP senior class. I am happy to read that you had discussions with your fellow students because discussions get things out there to discuss. Such mental activity forces students to think. As to your point pertaining to all people can make it here in America, I agree with you. America has always been the land of opportunity and I believe we will continue down that road. There are tons of ways to be successful in this nation with good schools, home, cyber and charter schools, technical schools, community colleges and regular colleges. The question is does one have the will to do one or more of the above. Keep up the good work.

I just hope it is anybody but a President Obama, the King of going around congress with regulations!

you're so wrong on many levels, go back to school, lets start with the multiple spelling and grammatical errors in your post. I am guessing the teacher involved is not doing a good job and should be fired pronto.

Ryan & Ben - glad to see that you are involved. I think that the point that highschool student is missing is that this book is NOT literature; and doesn't belong in a lit class, AP or not. What literature did they not learn while they were reading this stuff? Do it in a civics/social study/human dorcus class and I might let it go with only a harrumph.

Unfortunately, we have a nation of free thinkers -- you get what you pay for! Students discuss the merit of discussing a book, the free thinkers chose to stretch their limits and correct spelling and grammatical errors that were probably not proofread when the kids dictated the comment on their iPhone. The idea that poor people fend in a different manner makes free thinkers uncomfortable in that they may soon have to learn these coping skills. Good for the kids defending their right to think. I only worry that they have to point out that they are in AP classes. They might want to think about why that is necessary for credibility? I would hope everyone should be learn to think. That is what strengthens our society- not correct spelling.

I think you misunderstood my comment. My concern came from that student identifying him or herself as an AP student, and then writing such a poorly written comment. I didn't mean to negate his or her point, but rather, to suggest that future comments be proofread, lest they detract from the comment's purpose.

I don't believe this book should be banned from the schools and I vehemently disagree with people going from school to school, trying to dictate what the schools can teach. When did it become the government's job to legislate morality and when did it become acceptable for people to come into a school district and tell their school boards what they may and may not allow? Why are these self-righteous people?

I am a lifelong Conservative, but I disagree with most of the things Chris Miller wrote on here and in his endless string of Letters to the Editor. Most people tend to see his name and just move to the next item, but I choose to read them. Like some of those who commented here mentioned, free thinking is not a bad thing and everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how skewed and judgmental it may be.

Today is Easter. I wish the people who are trying to ban this book well and I wish peace for Chris Miller. I hope their efforts are thwarted or better, that they come to their senses and allow school boards and teachers to choose what is appropriate for themselves.

And when did parents who send their kids to public schools give up their rights to participate in there kids education? Let's just all leave the raising of our children to the Government! After all, they are the "Professionals" and know so much more then us common little people!

And, for the record, I am not in favor of banning any books, but I do think parents need to be more informed of what goes on in their schools and think our society and students on a whole would benefit from true school choice.

Ron.
First I would ask you have you read the book? Then I would ask, what did you find to be redeeming qualities about the story. I would also point out that in the Nazareth District and I believe in others only AP seniors were allowed to read the book. Why? Why not all seniors or "Free Thinkers"? How do you define or what is in your opinion, a free thinker? If you want to read a really good book on education and intelligence I suggest "The Theory of Education in the United States" by Alfred Jay Nock.

Ben
You owe Rosemary an apology. She is one of the nicest prersons I have had the good fortune to konw and work with when her son and my grandson were in Cubs together. She is also a true conservative not a RINO like you

I most certainly DO NOT, Chris Miller. If anything, you owe ME an apology. You're the one using that old liberal trick of throwing around names and personal insults when you couldn't ague the point I was making. You sit on the Board of Directors at Nazareth and you know damn well that you wouldn't want some parent from Allentown or anywhere else, coming in and telling you how to teach Nazareth. Students. All they did was prolong the meeting, while taking time and attention away from actual residents with legitimate concerns

You say I'm not a "true conservative" and yet, you know nothing about me. I'd say I was sorry I didn't fit your mold of what a conservative should be, but I suppose I just don't care what you think.

First of all, public school teachers are government employees.

Secondly, Mr Miller, Having school choice would solve this problem. As a parent, you simply would not send your child to a school that taught books such as this in a supposedly AP class. I would much prefer true, more classical literature be read and analyzed in an AP class. And, given a choice, I would send my children to schools that taught that way.And you could send your children to schools that taught in a more liberal manner. I would never want to speak for you or your children, but I do want and deserve the choice as to what type of education my kids get.

And third, I certainly do have the courage of my convictions. I just choose not to put my family or my livelihood in danger by id-ing myself and my opinions to every crazy person out there. I have seen people's bosses called because of opinions expressed here and I have seen people threaten to call peoples employers to report that they are fooling around on the computer instead of working. It is a sick world out there and I choose to remain safe. You choose to "put yourself out there" and I respect that choice. Please have the courtesy to respect my choice to remain more private. It does not make my opinion any less valid. Our votes are anonymous and they are also still just as valid.

Ben
You might want to look at who is in our schools today and particularly in our public schools. Public schools should allow any kids in their? I would like you to tell that to the kids in Allentown who were raped by another student. There were, I believe, 5 elementary students and their parents. involved in this case. You of course knew all about this!!!. I can also tell you from my personal experiences at Liberty High School that I had countless encounters with young ladies in the hall who used the terms "bitches and hoes" when speaking to one anothe.I can also tell you that the Gay community was perfectly okay referring to themselves as "Queers". You really need to attend a school board meeting or speak to some of the board members or just talk to parents who have kids in public schools today. Why do you think enrollment is going down in public schools while more and more parents are getting their kids into Charter, Cyber, and Home Schooling.

Again, Chris, you know absolutely nothing about me. My wife is a teacher. She student taught in the Allentown School District and my two oldest children attended Allentown schools until we moved to Nazareth. I grew up in Nazareth and moved when I got married. I have spoken to plenty of school board members over the years and the outgoing Superintendent is a good friend of my family. I don't attend meetings because one of my service-connected disabilities is PTSD with Panic Disorder and Agoraphobia (I am rated 100%). I CAN'T attend the meeting or I would. You really should have done a little research into who I am, because the things you are saying to me are pretty ridiculous.

True. My dad was a teacher in a public school for 38 years and he took tremendous pride in his work. It was never just a job to him. He looked at it like a privilege, to be able to help kids learn to read and right at a level that would help them compete in life. He was a high school teacher who volunteered for the remedial classes every year.

Limeport
It isn't just about getting the kids a "good education" its helping them find their way as to what they want to be. Some are meant for college but that doesn't guarantee an intelligent person. Likewise we have kids enjoy tech schools yet their way of getting an education is different. I will tell you that I believe that many kids are bored to death by school. Did you know that years ago if you had an exceptional student they might skip a grade? What was you experience with the 13 marvelous years. Were you thrilled with what went on or did you wish you were out of school? Did you know that years ago you could simply drop our of school and go to work maybe on the farm, maybe with a dad who was a carpenteror electrcian. Maybe your family owned a small store and you went to work there and inherited and ran the business passing it onto your family. Where is that today for our kids. Take is one step further to college. I put 4 years in undergrad school at Moravian college. I was a history major and as such I had to have 11 courses in history to obtain that major. That was 33 credit hours. Had I studied my major only I would have been out of schoo in a 1.5 years. I did the credit hours for my Master's in one year and was a graduate assistant. I would have been out of college in 2.5 years with my degree. Why did I need a foreign language, science, English, and Phys Ed. It would have save my dad and i a lot of money. Think about it. and let me read your thoughts.

Chris sure does have a high opinion of himself, especially for someone who has spent a lifetime complaining about the problems he saw in his mind and did little to make things better. Even now, his time on the school board is about promoting his own agenda and bolstering his ego.

You ever notice that the people who spend the most time shouting from the mountain tops, rarely have anything of value to say? It's shocking that you feel getting a rounded education was a waste of money for your daddy, who paid for you. In my case, my dad was a teacher who also worked part time jobs my entire childhood, working his hardest to support his family. I paid for my own bachelor's degree through the Montgomery GI Bill, after I came home as a disabled veteran.

Parental involvement has always been the key to both a decent education and a well-rounded kid. A teacher can only encourage a student to a certain degree and beyond that, the parent either fills the void or leaves it empty...

Chris and I are no relation, by the way. I'd hate for anyone to be confused, especially since I actually do have a brother named Chris, who I respect quite a bit.

Limeport
If you want to know why parents are not involved in their kids schooling I suggest that you look at Goals 2000 and No Child Left Behind. The first was supporte By George H.W.Bush and the second put togeter by George W. Bush and Ed Kennedy.

Chris, why don't you just hop on a plane out of here, if you hate our government and our country so much. It's people like you that make the rest of us Republicans look like uninformed, backwoods idiots.

Oh, whoah, wait a second. I think there's been a misunderstanding here. I was referencing the comparison with Bill Clinton lying about what he did and Chris lying about how you "opened his eyes." I was not trying to imply anything between the two of you and I apologize if it sounded that way. For that, I absolutely do owe you an apology. It was not what I meant and I'm sorry.

As far as the rest about Chris Miller and his ultra-conservative agenda, I will not apologize. It's true and the whole town knows it. He's been writing hate-filled letters to the editor for years, making his position clear. Look at how he's talked about homosexuals in his posts here and elsewhere. I may be a married father of four, but I still support the homosexual community 100% and I believe people deserve to be treated as equals. I also resent people like you, who post on here anonymously and who show up at school board meetings in other districts, trying to act as the morality police.

I feel like I'm a good person and I genuinely try to do as much good as possible in this world. If I'm not good enough for you or for Chris, then too bad. For a conservative Christian, you sure like to judge others...

Well, Rosemary, it seems I owe you another apology then. I lumped you in with the group that Chris has been promoting, going to different districts school board meetings to push for this book to be banned (like the people describe in this article). Apparently, you and I have a great deal in common, with the exception of the school choice issue. I also looked at an earlier post where you noted that you are not in favor of banning the book, which I must have missed as I read through the comments. I sincerely apologize and hope that you will understand my frustration with those who try to cause problems to further their own agenda. You are obviously not one of those people and I was wrong to treat you as if you were.

I used to be one of those people who was afraid to admit my mistakes or embarrassed to stand up and acknowledge them. As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that we all make them and if someone is willing to stand up accept credit for their victories, they ought to be equally willing to stand up and accept credit for their mistakes.

Thank you for that apology as well and for finally treating me fairly.

I also believe that a book such as this should be balanced with a book advancing the opposing viewpoint. I think that would make for a better class and more informed students. Just one viewpoint should not be advanced.

And, just to be clear, the school choice I am in favor of is a true voucher school choice plan that would also put the public schools in competition with one another and the private schools. Not just a public vs private school choice. I think competition among all the schools would make them better and let parents find the schools that best fit their children as individuals.

That wasn't the me that posted that profanity-laced comment. I just saw it in my inbox and came on here to make sure people knew it wasn't the Ben Miller that was debating (and apologized) to Rosemary. Apparently, people can post using my name somehow?

Ben Miller, I have had that happen to me as well. It is a glitch that The Patch really needs to correct.

Good night, all.

I have to admit, I was pretty shocked to see those comments with my name behind them. I'm glad you recognized that they weren't actually coming from me and I agree, that needs to be fixed.

The great thing iabout Chris is he sees deep conspiracies everywhere. What I wonder is how does Chris know whether the method to beat the drug test works. I do not how describing poverty promotes a socialist agenda except if one draws the conclusion we should not help fellow Americans. I am not sure what is wrong with socialism. Most socialists countries are doing better than we are, their citizens are happier, and in the last decade they have a strong middle class who are doing better than their parents! Jesus was a socialist and a communist. His teachings are socialist. It is hard to be a Christian without socialistic tendencies.
By the way the bible teaches how to stone people, crucify people and other atrociities. What book with opposing views should we demand be read to balance the bible?

Last time I checked the Bible was not required reading in the Nazareth AP class!

@Limeport Are Koch brothers related to the KOCH philantropy that supports my favourite show on PBS called NOVA?

Canadians are doing well because they work in the US and I don't see them as sociaists nor have I heard anyone refer to Canada as a socialist nation. The Inuits are moving into the cities. They do have a rather crummy health care system since many stories are out there about waiting and Canadians coming to the US to get help. Scandinavian countries are successful. Sweden just went communist. They are really insignificant. You say that Socialists are happy and doing better then their parents. What exactly do you mean by that?. If these places are so fantastic why aren't people going their in droves? In fact, why are you still here in the US. If one wants to sit on his or her posterior most of their life go to France or better yet that fun filled nation called Greece. As to India, the game plan from the beginning was to come here and go to school then go back home. I had Indian kids in the late 1980's who let that cat out of the bag. Same pretty much goes for China.
Jesus did indeed point out those guidelines but being nice to your fellow man and helping someone when they are in need does not make you a socialist. It makes you a kind and charitable person who is willing to help through physical work or financial help. Keep in mind that before entltlement programs it was individual giving, the assistance of the church and other groups that helped those in need. As to the Koran well let me just say read the book

Wow there is so much wrong with socialism i could write a book.You said if one does not like socialism the conclusion is they think we should not help fellow americans. Wrong we the people should help fellow americans but the goverment should not force anyone to,thats not the purpose of goverment,to redistribute wealth. You said most socialist countries are doing better then we are and their citizens are happier. I challenge you to name one! Spend a month in one and you will come back singing a different tune. you say jesus was a socialist yes he helped people because he wanted to not because goverment told him to. everyone should help people, because their loving caring and giving not because their socialists. OH YA SWEDEN AND CANADA ARE NOT TRUE SOCIALIST COUNTRIES!

You can pray all you want; just don't pressure everyone to follow. You certainly could read the bible as part of a history of religion course if you can read the Koran too. Kennedy was a true Catholic practicing his faith without forcing it down the throats of others who choose not to belong to a religion who committed so many atrocities in the name of God.

Ron
My understanding is that Sweden has elected a communist leader or head of government. I heard that awhile ago but in my search did not fine anyone calling it a communict government. If i remember corretly Sweden did suffer from a crash in the housing bubble.

Every one of the countries except France are countries where the top 1percent in wealth controls the country, spend the money to give false propaganda to mollify the citizens, push wages down to make the rich wealthier and provide only marginal benefits to the population. Sounds like what the USA is pushing for. These are dictatorships not socialists. Low wages have not stopped China from great strides in their economy. Once they have committed to establishing a middle class, they have beaten us economically-Will have higher GDP than us in a couple of years. Best growth in USA was when tax rate for wealthy was 92percent. Wealth distribution is what we are getting now-all going to the rich.

Limeport dont you see the trend, dictatorships and socialists go hand in hand. For dictators to survive they need to turn their countries socialist and they need gun control. We must be careful not to go down that road. Im not sure if germany is a true socialist country now or not. I know they tried it once with the natiional socialist nazi party but it didnt work out to well! Dictators love socialism, it lets them control the people by making the people dependent on goverment once they disarm them !

Chris i believe swedens goverment is a constitutional monarchy. They have capitalism plus extensive welfare benifits so seems like a little mix of socialism added in. But strong privately owned firms like ikea, volvo and ericson shows they are not a true socialist goverment. But they are the most left wing country in Europe

Dave B
I agree with the comments you made in your last two paragrahs. Read the books your kids read and discuss those books. I agree that when you try to hide something it only makes us more interested in something we try to hide.

I think you and I would agree that some kids want to know what we think as adults. One of the things i found out during 32 years of teaching is that they want to know what is right or wrong and they might be more inclinded to ask a teacher about a particular subject. Many times that comes up in a class rooom because of the matter being discussed. I gave my students the opportunity to express their opinion. Sometimes I agreed with them and at other times I would disagree with them and explain why i did. My job was to teach history. For example, today we are constantly reminded that some of the Foounding Fathers had slaves, that is true, but is there more? Why did they have slaves? How did we get the 2/3's section in the Constitution? if we had not compromised on the 2/3's section what would have happened.? A lot of times things are not discussed except the bad thing "owning slaves". When I discuss that am I showing my political agenda or amy I getting more of the history out there? I do not believe in a constant barage of pushing an agenda on let's say solar power but if I have another opinon that provides good intormation do I simply go quiet. Teaching involves spreading knowledge and brings on discussions. I think that is a good thing.

Dave B - I heartily agree that classrooms must not be politicized. But, nobody is demanding that the book be banned; leave it in the library and tell students that it is there, just don't REQUIRE that they read it.
You seem to be an involved parent; I wish more parents were invoved in their kid's lives.

Dave i totally agree ! Sorry i got off topic but limeport made some comments that i just had to address. You sound like an involved parent. Thanks we need more like you!!!!