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Moms Talk

Kids Suspended for Using 'Finger' Guns: What do you Think?

Three six-year-olds have been suspended in Maryland this month for playing with guns made from their thumbs and index fingers at school. What are your thoughts?

 

Moms Talk is a weekly feature on all Lehigh Valley Patches in which local parents, caregivers and other members of the community are invited to share opinions and advice on parenting topics.

This week’s Moms Talk question relates to distinguishing between child’s play and real danger.

Three 6-year-olds have been suspended this month in two separate incidents in Maryland for playing with pretend guns “made” from their thumbs and index fingers. The parents are upset. In one case, a school psychologist says there was no malicious intent. Other mental health professionals say that at the age of six, children cannot even understand why adults are upset when they point a finger and go “pow, pow.” One school district reversed the suspension after the parents appealed. The debate has centered around what’s child’s play, what’s not and how to tell the difference between the two in a society that is debating the issue of gun control at unprecedented level in the wake of the Sandy Hook School shooting in December 2012.   

And that brings us to this week’s Moms Talk question:

What do you think about children being suspended from school for using pretend “finger guns?”

Our Moms Council members include:

  • Lisa Amey of Upper Milford Township is a stay-at-home mom to an 8-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl. A past president of the MOMS Club of Emmaus and longtime member of MOPs (Mothers of Preschoolers), Lisa is an Independent Consultant for Arbonne International.
  • Lisa Drew of Emmaus is a certified nutritionist and personal trainer, wellness and fitness coach with more than 17 years of experience. She is the mother of a 13-year-old girl and a 9-year-old boy.
  • Jennifer Elston of Emmaus has almost two decades of professional experience in child development and counseling. She is currently a stay-at-home mom to two beautiful girls. Together with her husband, Chris, she owns Christopher Elston Photography.
  • Jeanne Lombardo of Nazareth is the mother of a 10-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl. She’s new to the Lehigh Valley, having moved to Nazareth from Bergen County, NJ in January.
  • Lisa Merk of Lower Macungie is a stay-at-home mother of four boys – a 12-year-old and 6-year-old triplets. Lisa is a past president of the MOMS Club of Lower Macungie East. In her “spare” time, Lisa teaches piano to school-age children.
  • Zoila Bonilla Paul of Bethlehem is a stay-at-home mom to two girls – a 5-year-old and a 14-month-old. Zoila is a member of her local “moms’ club” and says she is “well-versed in the fun that children can bring.”
  • Beth Sharpless of Emmaus works part time in a local emergency department as a nurse and part time from home as a customer support specialist. She has two children -- a boy who is almost 2 and a 5-year-old girl. She says they love spending time outdoors and dancing.

If you would like to become a part of the Moms Council and/or have ideas for future Moms Talk questions, please email jennifer.marangos@patch.com.

About this column: Moms Talk is a weekly Lehigh Valley Patch forum exploring issues relevant to parents, children of all ages and people in general. Related Topics: Pretend Guns, Suspension, and moms talk

Rich

6:48 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013

Lets see now. Seeing a finger ised in a particular sign is not considered a threat?
So if a child points his finger toward his head and swings it around his ear (sign someone is NUTS or COOKOO) is that abusive accusation also suspendable behavior. If a child points his finger at another child as a gesture, is that showing intent to do bodily harm so also to be suspended? What about the anger when they say I hate you, or I'll kill you or your mother is a witch. Were is the line of what children say and when do they have to be suspended for acting out their movies, video games, and parents?

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Beth

8:55 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013

I think that discipline was quite extreme. It is a 6 year old child. They are just starting to become rational thinkers at that age. That's good the parents appealed it and won.

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KimA

9:02 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013

The loonies are taking over! It's these progressive wackos! A 5 year old litte girl was suspended for having a little pink bubble making gun at school. The threat was shooting another student with bubbles...that is right...BUBBLES! The horror!

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KimA

9:56 am on Sunday, January 20, 2013

If that is in response to my story than yes! I saw it on the news. It was a cute little pink bubble maker. The little girl was overheard telling her friend she was going to shoot her....yes...with her bubble maker! Lol We need to stop this madness.

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Mom of DnNnD

11:48 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

And from all the published reports that I read, she didn't even have the bubble gun with her at school.

Vita

1:56 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013

Everyone needs to stop overacting and consequently punishing our kids for innocent child's' play. Parents need to continue to fight these crazy's who keep making new & ridiculous rules/behaviors with the guise of keeping all safe. They're doing way more harm than good for our kids.

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Margaret

4:49 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013

We need to find a balance between child's play and serious danger. While I appreciate the fact that school officials, staff, faculty, and administration have the kids' best interests at heart, their methods of protecting kids can be seen as ubersensitive, overzealous, etc. I can remotely understand WHY we're all on such high alert, but there has to be a more sensible solution for YEARS and YEARS to come. I have a 5-year-old daughter in kindergarten at a Catholic school; while her school is equally vulnerable to danger as public schools are, I have full confidence that her school's staff and administration are well-trained and well-versed in "what to do" if any safety issues come up. It's sad that since Columbine and Jonesboro from over 10 years ago, along with widespread use of internet usage and cyber-bullying, have forced our society to be ready for tragedies. We didn't ask for it, and I'm sure that nobody wanted it, but this is the new reality that we're ALL living in TODAY in 2013. We need to wake up, get real, get educated, and cooperate with the best intentions for EVERYONE'S safety and well-being.

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KimA

5:43 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013

Margaret, you used a lot of words, but your point was lost. Do you think they overreacted or acted properly according to the dangers of the day?

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Davida

7:26 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013

maybe an explanation of why thier behavor was unacceptable and a warning would have been enough!

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KimA

7:49 pm on Sunday, January 20, 2013

Davida, do you really think their behavior was unacceptable? These kids are not developed enough to "understand". Maybe it's the adults that need to understand that it's only child play!

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Lisa Amey

10:03 am on Monday, January 21, 2013

I think in this case, this situation should have been used as a teachable moment for these six year olds, who had no ill intent and there was no danger. If the school wants to send a message about what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior, and is going to say kids should not do this, (as extreme as this seems to me) as with any other expectation they should at least set the guidelines first, educate the kids, and go from there.

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Marcie

9:29 am on Monday, January 28, 2013

TOTALLY agree. There was a teachable moment and it got completely lost in a punishment.

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An interested bystander

9:34 am on Monday, January 28, 2013

Marcie it still is a teachable moment - teaching kids that they aren't the only ones who can be morons.

Jennifer Elston

1:14 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013

How can I say it better than how Lisa Amey said it above???

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Cindy

2:53 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013

Prove to me a link between a young boy playing cops and robbers and them growing up to actually kill people. STOP....the insanity please. It's make believe! I used to pretend I was a dog or a cat....it's ALL child's play. Get over yourselves people! We will never help the situation if we continue to get caught up with this nonsense that won't change anything. It is not WRONG for boys to play pretend. They have done it for decades. Can we take a look at the crumbling family unit? How about the fact that parents today can't admit that their kid ever does anything wrong...focus people!

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Kelly

8:08 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

This happened to my son too last Thursday. He pointed his finger ate 4 people in his 3rd grade class, the school contacts me and says he threatened to kill 4 people. The school social worker asked him questions like "does he have guns in his home?" They said if I didn't attend a meeting in the school, they would have to consult with school safety to ensure my son doesn't have any harmful weapons on his person. They also said he committed an A35 (NYC discipline code)Engaging in an act of coercion or threatening violence, injury or harm to others. I am disgusted on how the school handled this matter as if my child were some sort of terrorist. Its too much, they went too far over a little child's play.

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tamarya

2:23 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

So your school put your child through this emotional harm and that was acceptable, but if your child went to school, assuming it's east penn, all upset you yelled at him they would not be hesitant to report you to c&y. And I agree Wayne, anything that is run by the government whether schools, children and youth agencies, doctors, anything that is required by law to butt their nose in where it don't belong when it involves a child is insanity.

Ann

10:30 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Kelly, I am so sorry you and your child had to go through that. Does it occur to anyone of these geniuses the harm they might be doing to these innocent children by labeling them in such a way? I wonder what Lisa Amey thinks...justified I assume! I'm sure your son got quite the education!

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Wayne Schissler

11:12 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Almost 20 years ago we were called into the principal's office (an elementary public school) over our daughter violating the "no weapons" policy. All the children were asked to write a short story which would then be printed up as a small book. Our daughter's story had a gun in it, and that was the violation. Remember the TV series "Christy"? One of the most wholesome shows on the boob tube at the time - the story was basically a retelling of one of the episodes. Homeschool, private or parochial school your children... the insanity of the government school is too much.

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ron

11:19 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Wow. I think these school officials should be suspended for life from having anything to do with disciplining children. I never heard of anything so idiotic.

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Ann

11:26 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

My son is 20 now. When he was in 2nd grade he was heard using the term sneak attack. He and one boy were playing tag against two other boys. Sneak attack was a term my husband and I would use with our four kids when we would sneak up behind them. We never dreamed the phrase could be so misconstrued. We used it during play! The teacher heard my son and immediately marched him to the principals office. We got a call and had to meet with the teacher and the principal. My son had idolized that teacher before the incident. After, he was crushed. The rest of the year was horrible. He thought the teacher hated him and couldn't understand what happened. These people have no idea the effect these overreactions have on these poor kids.

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tamarya

2:16 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Extremely far fetched. If this were junior high or high school kids that would be different. I understand safety is a concern and kids are getting younger and younger when they commit crimes, but if they knew it was nothing more than play I hope the parents win the appeal.

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tamarya

2:17 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

And thank god PA is not like that or my 8 yr old would probably be in prison already.

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Wayne Schissler

5:44 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

The finger pointed like a gun issue has popped-up here recently in a local PA elementary school. I don't know if suspension was a possibility but I do know it prompted a parent-teacher conference. Rarely are these sorts of regulations limited to one state or locality - quite a bit is trickle down from federally mandated programs that states must follow to receive funding or just the result of going along with what seems to be a good idea that everyone else is implementing. After all - what could go wrong with a weapon free zone policy?
I remember the local school board meeting (mid to late 90's) when the policy was being described and the assistant superintendent pulled a tiny nail clipper from his pocket and stated that "technically" this would violate the new policy. I guess no one imagined just how technically such a policy could be stretched in the future...

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tamarya

10:38 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013

I know even when I was in school we had a weapon free policy, because I was in vo tech for floriculture and at the end of the yr when our floral knives were brought home they had to be completely taped so not easy to get and use as a weapon, however toy guns, fingers pointed like guns, butter knives, nail clippers, mirrors, jewelry were not classified as weapons to get you arrested or suspended even in high school, the only thing that got you arrested was a true weapon, and knives got you arrested if you pulled it out and threatened to use it.

Jill

6:14 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013

Here's a good one....a girl got in trouble for a piece of ripped paper that another student said looked like a gun. Can you believe it? She looked like she was about 6. She was crying on TV. They searched her pack back. The commentator joked that they must have been looking for paper bullets. This would be funny if it weren't so sad.

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Hugh Gallagher

6:15 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013

Yes, start teaching those kids "gun control" at an early age.

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Jeff Brosky

1:30 pm on Monday, February 4, 2013

several years ago a friend of mine told me about his kid----his son was walking around the house looking in closets and the basement--checking off things on 3 pieces of paper he had in his hands my friend asked his son what he was doing?
the kid said homework teacher wants to know if any guns are in the house and what else might be here just a homework project the school wants to know

Vincent M

10:05 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

My 7 year old son was just suspended for 5 days and his "crime" was he pretended his pencil was a gun and he said to a classmate that he was going to shoot him. I am absolutely furious that such a severe punishment was handed down immediately with no thought to progressive discipline like a warning etc. My guy is completely non-violent and no behavioral issues to speak of so needless to say, I am looking forward to the hearing with the school board to hear exactly what prompted them to treat my 1st grader like a psychopath in the making for some innocent play.

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Kim

10:14 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

I would get as many parents as you can to go with you. There's power in numbers! We need to take back our schools from these psychos. They need to learn that parents will not stand or this! I am so sorry for you son!

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Jan Earp

6:21 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Yes I'm dealing w the same w my son. Everyone I tell is outraged. All the comments that I read on this topic are stating that it is ridiculous. My question is what are we doing about it besides grumbling amongst ourselves. We must band together and start making some noise. Visit w school board members, state representatives, governors, the Dept of Education..... What else can we do?!! It will only continue to spiral if we do nothing!

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Kim

8:21 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Jan, I completely agree...strength in numbers. I have also been proactive by calling the super intendent's office and principle's office. I have spoken directly to them.

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Jan Earp

9:32 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Kim, how did they handle your call.... What sort of response??

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Kim

10:14 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Actually very well. It was Parkland H.S.. I was very impressed with the new principal. I'd rather not get into particulars.

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Jan Earp

11:47 am on Saturday, February 9, 2013

I'm glad it went well! Hopefully, people will come to their senses.

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Anonymous Poster

10:38 pm on Monday, March 18, 2013

This is absolutely ridiculous. Even as a person with a strong dislike of guns in general, I cannot see what danger or disruption pretending to use your fingers as a gun poses for any school in the country. If I were still young and in elementary school, I would have been suspended many times over with policies like this. School officials need to wake up and realize that these reactionary zero-tolerance policies—however well-intentioned—are doing more harm than good.

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Parkland Parent

11:40 am on Tuesday, March 19, 2013

Take a CLOSE look in the home of this child. VERY CLOSE LOOK.

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Jill

12:20 pm on Tuesday, March 19, 2013

Parkland Parent, What do you mean? Are you talking about the three 6 yr. olds?

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